4 HN users recommended this interview4 months2017–2024score 4
Years with an HN recommendation, 2007–2026
HN reaches for it constantly as evidence of Apple's long-standing privacy stance and as a yardstick for judging Apple, Facebook and others.
A short clip of Steve Jobs at the 2010 D8 conference, interviewed by Walt Mossberg, defining privacy as people knowing what they are signing up for, in plain English and repeatedly. The discussion centered on location data.
“Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for. In plain English, and repeatedly.” (HN, 2018)
Have used Android for years (I have been using devices like Pro, rooted, custom ROMS, skins whatever you might imagine). Shifted to Apple's echo system 2-3 years ago. It took me some time to get used to iOS but integration across devices (my mac, my iPad, my watch) is simply amazing. I am not going sound like broken record or fan boy here. Apple got me on this video where Steve Jobs really showed how much they care for privacy [this video] the other day my wife got a notification from Google Photos that it prepared our Album from our trip to SFO. We have turned of location tagging and everything, turns out Google is not content with me asking them to leave me alone, they would use ML and whatever they have built to figure out where I have been. In this day in age, while Apple might sound outdated to a lot of people, nothing can beat the sense of security with privacy Apple carries with itself now.
> Now, how do I do it in a non-evil way? I am presuming here that everyone agrees that should be possible to make that work [...] Apparently Facebook did it the wrong way. Why? I really like Steve Jobs' comments on how to operate, with regards to questions of user privacy: [this video] (3 minutes) While I'm not convinced about the need for devices to be locked down, the rest of his response should be the gold standard in my opinion.
You're making it sound like there is no business opportunity on Apple's side to mine and sell customer data the way Google does. Why can't we assume they are doing it with the best of intentions? Watch this 10 year old clip of Steve Jobs: [this video] The position is genuine.
Jobs clip as evidence Apple's privacy stance is genuine.
Steve Jobs words 12 years later are still very relevant today [this video] I just want to thank Apple for pushing this agenda forward, introducing things I believe Google would never do themselves first unless pressured. I still remember Apple introducing “track me while using the app only” in a new iOS years ago that stopped companies hoarding live geolocation of every app user. And we still get new bits and bobs every major iOS release. In just last few years we found out apps that unnecessarily scanned for our network devices or used clipboards for no apparent reason. Keep them coming.
> Apple has traditionally been very user hostile Here's an interview with Steve Jobs on privacy regarding location data: [this video] Apple takes care of their users.
Privacy has been big at Apple for a long time, this video was posted in this thread of Steve Jobs talking about how important privacy is to Apple [this video]
“Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for. In plain English, and repeatedly. That’s what it means. I’m an optimist. I believe people are smart. And some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they’re tired of you asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data. That’s what we think.” — Steve Jobs, 2010 WSJ AllThingsD Conference Video: [this video] Transcript: [link] Recent article: [link]
Jobs defining privacy as informed, repeated consent.
Apple always took location privacy seriously. I remember an interview between Steve Jobs and Walt Mossberg years ago on this subject. I looked it up again: [this video]
> If you recall, Apple's stance on privacy is quite recent. You should read some of the history of Steve Jobs, and you will learn that he was very serious about privacy and it seems like his values have been imbued into Apple and now Tim Cook. Here's perhaps the latest clip of Steve on privacy: [this video]
> at least a year now (...) they show a privacy disclosure splash screen before turning on many features for the first time. This has been the case from the start of the Apple App Store. Here is a 3 minute video of Steve Jobs talking about it in 2010 - [this video] (Zuckerberg comes up too funnily enough).
This comment has no basis of truth. [this video] Jobs @ D8 People are quick to forget because back then everyone (including HN) was praising Google for everything under the sun.
>Ten years ago Apple wasn't running ads about privacy and they were working on building out the App Store. Steve did [this video] >Privacy means people know what they're signing up for, in plain English and repeatedly >I believe people are smart and some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you're going to do with their data I think the issue was that Apple bungled IDFA by not making in opt-in initially and now are trying to correct their mistakes. Apple was vilified 10 years ago for this stance, but at the end of the day they were right with their opt-in view on tracking and how pervasive silicon valley was going to become with collecting data.
Steve Jobs talking about this at D8 in 2010, and of course the privacy features he talks about were baked into the OS APIs from the start. Apple's rift with Google over user data collection in Google Maps goes back to 2009 when Google held Apple to ransom for the user data in return for turn-by-turn directions. Apple refused and started building their own maps service, buying Placebase in July that year. [this video]
Steve Jobs was talking about privacy since (at least) 2010: > Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for, in plain English, and repeatedly. That’s what it means. I’m an optimist, I believe people are smart. And some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data. > That’s what we think. * [this video] What they're doing now seems to simply be a continuation of that thinking. (Sometimes better, sometimes worse.)
> Steve Jobs must be rolling over in his grave. June, 2010 - Jobs: "Privacy means people know what they're signing up for." [this video] December, 2015 - Cook: "If you put a back door in, that back door is for everybody, for good guys and bad guys." [link] August, 2021 Interviewer: "Isn't this in a way a back door?" Federighi: "I really don't understand that characterization." [link]
Contrasts Jobs's privacy stance with Apple's later message scanning.
>Apple using that as an excuse to punish a competitor Steve Jobs in 2010 being asked how Apple's view on privacy differs from Facebook's view (right after one of the early Facebook scandals) >Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for, in plain English, and repeatedly. That’s what it means. I’m an optimist, I believe people are smart. And some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data. [this video]
Jobs contrasting Apple's privacy view with Facebook's.
How many times are you going to shift the goalposts? This is getting tiresome, so I’ll make it my last reply. I don’t have Netflix but neither is that relevant to the point, you’re obviously and embarrassingly grasping at straws. No one is arguing against continuous cloud backups, they’re arguing about sending data without consent . Which, by the way, is something Apple used to understand not to do. [this video] Apple’s OS are already filled with Windows Vista style popups and permissions for inconsequential crap, people have been making fun of them for that for years.
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