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Frame from Tesla Autopilot Failing (No Warnings) Where There Was A Fatal Car Accident W Model X Plays via YouTube's privacy-enhanced embed

Tesla Autopilot Failing (No Warnings) Where There Was A Fatal Car Accident W Model X

Shantanu Joshi
Demos
YouTube
Cited on HN 7 times, 2018–2021, never outright recommended score 0
Years with an HN recommendation, 2007–2026

It is cited as evidence that other drivers could reproduce the Autopilot behavior in the fatal crash, mostly in critical discussions of Autopilot safety.

A Tesla Model S/X owner films his drive on US-101 in the lane where a fatal Model X Autopilot crash occurred, showing the car steering toward the lane divider without any warning.

“This guy tested it at the EXACT same location with tesla autopilot.” (HN, 2018)

3 citations · 4 critical · Demos · news from the time

7 Hacker News comments

From the HN archive; up to 20 kept per video, favoring different commenters. Recommendations first.

@nopriorarrests Apr 2018 Cites it
on HN thread Tesla owner recreates fatal Autopilot crash, nearly crashes as well
This article is about old video, already discussed here in detail. I thought it could be about a new one. So, couple of hours ago another video surfaced on /r/teslamotors, filmed at original location of Model X crash, with very detailed slow-motion. And autopilot acts (presumably) the same way as on Model X, trying to drive the car into solid obstacle. Video: [this video] Thread: [link]
Slow-motion video at the crash site showing Autopilot steering toward the obstacle.
@kchhina Jun 2018 Cites it
on HN thread NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash
Read more
It should be fairly easy to detect a chevron sign with yellow and black stripes [0] and take evasive measures to slow down, brake heavily or change lanes. From my understanding of CNN neural networks it's a fairly simple classification problem (that A. Karpathy researched, and taught at Stanford; and he's now leading the AI/vision team at Tesla). Looking at the video of the guy that tried that same route again, it looks like the sun was straight ahead (see starting 37th second of video [1]), and I am wondering if the camera had an issue identifying the sign due to the glare from the sun. Do we know if this problem has been fixed now? Can the chevron be identified at the same location by other Tesla drivers today, months after the guy that tested it and posted the video of his car swerving at the same place [1]? Following lane markings are never going to be a 100% reliable method for navigating roads. Even humans miss merging lanes, or have issues at complex surface street intersections where there are multiple overlapping lanes. But humans take evasive action.. they slow down, re-access, look at signs and probably get honked at. Following other cars is never going to be a reliable method for navigating roads. I don't know what the guy in front of me is going to do! I keep my safe distance and take evasive action if the guy in front of me does something stupid. I feel signs are most reliable in that sense. If there is a missing sign, a human is more likely bound to make a mist
Test of same route; commenter speculates sun glare affected sign detection.
@toomuchtodo Feb 2020 Cites it
on HN thread Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot
Read more
From previous reporting on this incident in 2018: > “The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision,” Tesla said. “The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.” [link] Also, the safety barrier that would've reduced the force of the impact had not been replaced after a recent accident just days before. > Earlier this week, Tesla said the divider was missing a safety barrier designed to reduce the impact of a crash. The automaker provided an image of the location taken a day before the collision that appeared to show the barrier had not been replaced following a recent crash. Reddit thread and Youtube video with a Model S driver reproducing the AP behavior due to the lane markings and uneven pavement: [link] [this video]
Driver reproducing the Autopilot behavior from lane markings and uneven pavement.
@unityByFreedom Apr 2018 Pushes back
on HN thread Autonomous braking: 'The most significant development since the safety belt'
> Would the Volvo system have picked up and appropriately responded to the gore point involved in the recent fatal Tesla crash? I'd rather ask, would the Volvo system steer towards the barrier like Tesla's AP may have done [1] [2]? "IIHS research shows that AEB systems meeting the commitment would reduce rear-end crashes by 40 percent." [3] AEB on its own may save lives. Whether autosteer systems do or not is an open question. [1] [this video] [2] [link] [3] [link]
@wlesieutre Jul 2019 Pushes back
on HN thread Tesla loses three vice presidents in a week
Read more
Because they're more honest about the "move fast and drive into a concrete barrier" problems? IMO's autopilot'ss scariest incident is where it drove into a barrier between the exit lane and the highway. [link] Other drivers were able to reproduce the same behavior, in which the car appears to think that the space between the exit and the highway is a traffic lane that it should follow. This will dump you straight into a wall at highway speeds. [this video] Tesla fixed it. Then six months later the same behavior is back: [link] How do you trust a system like this when any software update could turn the car suicidal with you in it? Yeah, it's also incidents where it saved drivers from a collision with faster than human reflexes, which is great. But you still need hands on the wheel and constant attentiveness or it might kill you in a situation that would be obvious to a human driver. The full self driving dream is further off than Musk will admit.
@sorenjan May 2021 Pushes back
on HN thread Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features
I've seen several videos of Tesla's autopilot getting confused by road markings and steering towards obstacles as a result. Using fewer sensors gives you less information, which seems like a bad idea for something as critical and difficult as automated driving on public roads. It's strange that Tesla's been getting away with unmet promises and dangerous behavior for years now. [this video] [link] [link] [link] [link] [link]

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